Should the Greek goverment go on a referendum concerning the citizenship issue?
How many immigrants are actually going to obtain the Greek citizenship?
Why Pasok doesn’t have the same sensitivity when it comes to Greeks living abroad,and finally give them the right to vote?
You are mistaken.Its not about giving citizenship, but giving ”ithagenia” (nationality).
So they are going to accept them as legal citizens of the Hellenic republic but as Greeks.
:S
Of course it should be a refenderum.This is a very controversial issue and the Greek people should decide about this, because Greek people are going to accept them as part of the Greeks or not.
Citizenship is a legal status in a political institution such as a city or a state. The relationship between a citizen and the institution that confers this status is formal, and in contemporary liberal-democratic models includes both a set of rights that the citizen possesses by virtue of this relationship, and a set of obligations or duties that they owe to that institution and their fellow citizens in return.
Nationality, on the other hand, denotes informal membership in or identification with a particular nation (which is not a synonym for country or state). While nationality is sometimes conferred as a legal status (see below), it and nations are properly understood as social categories, characterised by at least a common language, culture and territory, and sometimes also by a common religious faith and a purportedly shared ancestry.
Ζoi: All the news I have read about don’t talk about ipikootita but for ithagenia
http://www.i-live.gr/news-immigration-law-parliament/
http://www.tanea.gr/default.asp?pid=41&nid=1096751
http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngEntityID=1095993
Is something that I misread?
February 15th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Hi,
Under ‘normal’ circumstances I wouldn’t think that a referendum would be necessary, but taking into consideration the financial crisis, the social differences, the rasicm that is growing worldwide -look what is appening in Italy Calabria, in Ireland, in other countries- society is ready to explode.
We live in a ‘difficult’ Era. So, I think a referendum would be necessary. Personally I am not against it and i am not against immigrants obtaining Greek citizenship, though this may cause great problems in the near future. I mean immigrants that will obtain Greek citizenship are often too far from getting absorbed by the Greek society, so there will be getos of immigrants that will be Greek citizens, a new lower social GREEK class will immerge all of a sudden! I don’t know if the timing is right, neither if Greek society is ready to accept it.
EDIT
Vasiliki, are you sure! This is rather weird! They will have to finish only the first 3 grades of the Primary school as I’m reading.
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February 15th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
I lived in Greece for a couple of years due to my academic career, after obtaining a degree on Greek philology abroad. I’ve written loads of research on Greek culture, lifestyle etc. and I hold this country’s side so much that sometimes have the feeling I’m more Greek then some Greeks themselves. Unfortunately I cant live in Greece anymore because I’m not married to a Greek citizen…
I can understand the politics of non-giving the Greek passport to anyone, cause there are lots of illegal immigrants who didnt even try to fit in the Greek society, still there will always be cases such as mine, when someone dedicated their life to loving this country and still they cant live there nor make progress in their work.
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February 15th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
You are mistaken.Its not about giving citizenship, but giving ”ithagenia” (nationality).
So they are going to accept them as legal citizens of the Hellenic republic but as Greeks.
:S
Of course it should be a refenderum.This is a very controversial issue and the Greek people should decide about this, because Greek people are going to accept them as part of the Greeks or not.
Citizenship is a legal status in a political institution such as a city or a state. The relationship between a citizen and the institution that confers this status is formal, and in contemporary liberal-democratic models includes both a set of rights that the citizen possesses by virtue of this relationship, and a set of obligations or duties that they owe to that institution and their fellow citizens in return.
Nationality, on the other hand, denotes informal membership in or identification with a particular nation (which is not a synonym for country or state). While nationality is sometimes conferred as a legal status (see below), it and nations are properly understood as social categories, characterised by at least a common language, culture and territory, and sometimes also by a common religious faith and a purportedly shared ancestry.
Ζoi: All the news I have read about don’t talk about ipikootita but for ithagenia
http://www.i-live.gr/news-immigration-law-parliament/
http://www.tanea.gr/default.asp?pid=41&nid=1096751
http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngEntityID=1095993
Is something that I misread?
References :
February 15th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
It is very strange how so many immigrants so easy earn our Greek citizenship but that possibility doesn’t exists for ENDOPIANS, native and indigenous Macedonians in occupied Aegean Macedonia. We occupied their lands 1913, we threw out them out of Greece and now our state does not give them citizenship ! Their ancestors were perfect Greek citizens, they were drafted in the first rows of our armies against Turkey, against Italy, they were dying for Greece (even under Greek names). And their descendants have not property rights on their ancestors lands, nor citizenship. We should think about THAT a little !
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February 15th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
We have more than a million Albanians only in Athens ! They should have civil right to organize into political parties (right on political subjectivity). We should give them guarantied places in Parliament. They need schools, gymanzies and universities on their mothers tongue – Albanian. Greece should provide that level of standards !
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February 15th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
I agree with the referendum, but I would like to see the Greek government treat immigrants a bit better first.
I believe that a person that was born in Greece, went to Greek school, has never known another country than Greece should automatically be a Greek citizen. I am referring to the children of (even illegal) immigrants.
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February 15th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
The issue is about the "Ithageneia" as Vasiliki mentions.
Immigrants will have the right to vote and a large number of them (around 250.000 according to newspapers) will be given the "ithageneia". But as far as I know, they will have to prove they have a good knowledge of the greek language, the greek history and greek culture.
Children that were born here and have attended greek school will be given the "Ithageneia" regardless of their parents status.
The whole point is avoiding giving "Ithageneia" to people who don’t feel Greek and they will never do.
I think I read somewhere that the British are having second thoughts about their own policy regarding immigrants. Many people went there mainly coming from former colonies, but it is proven today that too many of them never achieved to adjust to the british culture and they don’t feel British.
Maybe someone living in UK can enlighten us.
As for the referendum, I don’t think any greek government would risk a "No" in this issue. So there won’t be one.
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February 15th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
They need education on all levels on theirs mother tongue !
They need political participation with their own parties !
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February 15th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
I agree with Vasiliki.
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